Nutmeg Nation :Grenada Day, Carnival Culture & the Real Cost of Mas — with Kerron

We catch up on summer heat in Toronto, then zoom in on why Grenada’s Spice Mas keeps growing with Jab Jab at the center of the culture. Along the way, we get real about money, music, meaning, and what visitors miss when they chase vibes without learning the history.

• Grenada Day Toronto moving to a new venue and why attendance drives it 
• Jab Jab as the flagship of Spice Mas and why it outpaces chutney 
• the deeper roots of Jab Jab tied to slavery, protest, and resilience 
• why racism and reparations still shape the conversation today 
• Skinny Banton’s rise and how soca travels across islands 
• what makes a soca song work: rhythm, hooks, crowd energy 
• real Carnival budgeting: flights, hotels, costumes, fets, and timing 
• Trinidad Carnival as a longer season and how it compares 
• a local perspective from Grenada on safety, spirit, and culture 
• misconceptions about Jab Jab and religion, plus the real meaning behind the “devil” look 
• must-do experiences: Jouvay, Monday wear, Monday Night Mas, Pretty Mas 
• parish-by-parish vibes and how the whole island participates 
• Grenadian pride and “small but talawa” as a lived identity

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Transcript

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Welcome Back And Summer Heat

Carlene 0:02

Hi, I'm Carleen, and this is Not Magnation. How are you? I hope you're doing well. It has been a minute since we've been live talking about Grenada. And I feel like in order to start the season, that I would bring back my great friend. I've known him on and off since we're in high school. I think he's a great person to talk to about all things Grenada. Hey Carol. Hi. It's been a really hot summer. How do you how do you keep cool when it's so hot? Do you drink a lot of water?

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Yeah. Drink water, stay indoors.

Carlene 0:46

I know. I'm like, we're indoors now. Like I it's just like 40 degrees temperature. I mean, we love the heat, I swear. I was counting down until summer, but now that summer is here, it's kind of like waiting for a little breeze to blow. Or no, no, I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

I'm okay with it.

Carlene 1:04

You're okay with it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

We're in indoor most of the time because we work indoors, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's why. But no, I'm I'm loving the heat.

Carlene 1:12

So am I. When people complain to me when I'm at work, I'm like, we waited months for this. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Yep. I even tell them, hey, in two months it'll be over. So you know it's true.

Carlene 1:24

And then we'll be back again in the cold.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

So be thankful.

Carlene 1:28

Yeah. I think I'm thankful for the sunshine. I mean, when does summer start? I think a lot of people think that here in Toronto that we are still wearing coats in June. I don't know. I've had people say that. I'm like, no. Summer starts in June. I mean, we start to get a little bit warmer. When? Like March, April? What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah, around May.

Carlene 1:49

May, yeah. Maybe yeah, that's true. Because it's still cold in March. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

So by the time June hits, it's full summer, usually. But yeah.

Carlene 1:56

Yeah.

Grenada Day Toronto Changes Venue

Carlene 1:57

I mean, it's full summer now, and we are counting down till Spice Mass. Uh, that's coming up, and there's Grenada Day in Toronto, which is on the last weekend of August, actually. It's usually on the last weekend. This year, it's on August 23rd, Saturday, August 23rd. And they're actually changing locations. Do you know where it is?

SPEAKER_04 2:23

No, no, I don't know where they changed it to.

Carlene 2:25

So basically, this year, Grenada Day will be changing from Coronation Park to Eglinton Avenue West to Black Creek Village. And I guess some people refer to it as Pioneer Village. Do you even know where that is?

SPEAKER_03 2:38

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Carlene 2:40

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Have you been there before?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Yeah, I've been to Pioneer Village before. Yeah.

Carlene 2:44

Nice. Is it a good venue? What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Uh yeah, I mean, it it it depends. I don't know how many people turn out for it. So it should be fine.

Carlene 2:55

So what they were saying from what I I read is that Grenada Day has kind of outnumbered Coronation Park. And so they changed the venue because, in terms of space parking, and accessibility, the public transit, this venue is a lot better.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Okay. Okay. So then there you go. Yeah.

Carlene 3:16

Yeah. I mean, I I missed Grenada Day. I didn't go last year, but clearly the numbers were there. I think that's the first time they've seen so many people. It was pretty packed. And I guess because it's getting bigger and more people are going going down to the event to celebrate Grenada, that they have to change venues because more people are going, right? So I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yeah. I I didn't go last year as well. Hopefully, hopefully I get to go this year.

Carlene 3:44

Yeah. I don't know. You know what? It's I hope to go this year too, but I think the one thing that's really bothering Torontonians for those who don't live in Toronto, like the traffic is insane. Rush hour traffic wherever you are. Like I went down, where was I? Keelan 401 last week, Wednesday. And getting back to Brampton was quite the trek.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

Yeah. No, it usually is, especially if you leave like around five o'clock.

Carlene 4:13

Yeah, even before that, I left at quarters of like 345 or something. And I was like, wow, yeah, I can't come down to Toronto during the rush. This is unreal. Yeah. Like there's yeah, it's it's tra like I mean, there's construction happening everywhere. But, anyways, getting back to regular topic here. So this

Why Jab Jab Is Everywhere

Carlene 4:34

summer, I think there's a lot of festivals happening, and spice mass in Grenada has gotten bigger with the jab jab scene. And I'm starting to wonder, what do you why do you think that is? What's the big deal with jab jab, anyways? I don't like, I mean, I get it, but why do you think spice mass has grown so quickly over the last few years?

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Ah, that's a good question. You're all right. The jab jab is what's propelled it to that, right? Grenada is really more so I wouldn't say more so, because ever since I was a kid down there, you always know you hear the you hear the show, it you know, it's jab jab, right? But it's like, I don't know, it's it's it it has propelled uh or become like the flagship of of Spice Mask. So it's interesting you say that because I always wonder about the Chutney too. Like, how come that one didn't blow up versus jab jab?

Carlene 5:23

You know, I was wondering that too. Like Chutney was big back then, like when I was a kid and I was in Grenada, and then I'm just like Jab Jab is everywhere. It's like they have the Jab Jab March, and then I mean, even when they start like spice mask season starts. I didn't realize it was so early, but like I think they start in May. Like that's when the parties start and like the artists are performing and that kind of thing. But I don't know why there's such a resurgence, like it's just become like a job job culture, yeah, and then there's a lot of them. Like it's just like and even the music too, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Yeah, the jab the music is what you know when you have a jab jab or them and all everything, it it's what propels, you know, the carnival. So yeah, no, I always wonder. I I I I don't have an answer for that one to be honest. I always wonder about the two, because like you like you said, uh growing up, that was like it was between the two of them. You're either you're either jab or you're shot me. So you know it's it's it's yeah, it's kind of interesting. Maybe you can dig into it more and and and and see see what made the difference for jab jab.

Carlene 6:26

Yeah, I mean, obviously there's a historical significance, but culturally speaking, it seems like jab jab evolved from a form of protest.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

But I don't know if it's because it's like a liberation of uh I from my understanding, because most of the carnival stuff, like when they did it going back in Trinidad, it's all from protest or to make fun of the slave masters and stuff. But from my understanding, Jab Jab sort of in memory and to mock the slave masters is when they they go around and you know, when they have like the dolls and stuff that that they cover with tar to signify the kids that that suffered or died and all that stuff like that, right? So it is a lot of meaning behind Jab Jab when they do that.

Carlene 7:09

Do you think like we're still fighting with that now, like in terms of oppression as a as a race, as a people, like do you think like we're it's kind of like a strong message? Because if we're talking about slavery and everything to do with the history of slavery from Trinidad to Grenada and other Caribbean islands, do you think it's still prominent because we're still dealing with racism now?

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Absolutely. The world has not, when I say the world, like those major powers, England, the US, France, what is it, Belgium? Yeah, Holland and stuff. They haven't rectified or dealt with slavery. I mean, you take, for example, Germany. Germany has reconciled with the Jewish, but England reconciled with the slave owners, but have not reconciled with the slaves. The United States has not recognized reconciled with the slaves. That's why they're going through all the stuff that they're going through now. And people are gonna continue to to push, and there's gonna be a lot of up and down and unrest until uh until they they they rectify it or till they do something about it to officially recognize and apologize because they haven't done that. So yeah, we're still dealing with it, and and it things are gonna continue the way probably even get worse because again, they need to they need they need to do something to give back reparations and stuff for all the people who were enslaved. The longer they take, the more they're gonna have to pay out because again, people are gonna the the generations are gonna get bigger and bigger and it's gonna come back to bite them even worse.

Slavery’s Shadow And Reparations

Carlene 8:40

Let's let's let's go back to Grenadian culture in Grenada. So there's one artist that I want to talk about, and the reason I think it'll be interesting to talk about it is because he's Trinidadian, but he moved to Grenada, and you are half Trini. So I think it's interesting this to bring him up. His name is Skinny Banton. Um, he's become very popular on the social scene. Like I think, well, it was last summer. I saw a live video on Instagram with his song Wrong Again, and I couldn't believe it. So the song actually came out in what year? I think you were looking it up, you were telling me.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

2019, yeah.

Carlene 9:20

Yeah. So a few years later, obviously, it still has a yeah, it's still doing well. A lot of people like the song. He's released other songs since. But yeah, for those who don't know about Skinny Banton, he's actually born in Trinidad, and he now lives in Caracou, which is the sister island of Grenada. And basically how he started off, he produced he was at an event, and then I guess he saw he performed there. And so in 2010, 2015, he came to the scene with his song Soak It Good, which propelled him to the semifinals of Trinidad and Tobago's international Soka Monarch competition. And so from that, he became, I guess he started making a name for himself, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Right, right.

Carlene 10:06

So tell me, what do you think of that song wrong again? What do you think it's about?

SPEAKER_04 10:11

I don't don't remember what it's about, to be honest, but I like the song.

Carlene 10:15

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

I like his music. I thought you were talking about Sparrow when you said he went to Trinidad, but he he's from Trinidad and went to Grenada.

Carlene 10:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Skinny Banton is born. He was born in Grin in Trinidad, but he moved to Grenada.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Okay.

Carlene 10:34

To Grenada.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Yeah, it's usually the other way around, which is interesting.

Carlene 10:37

But yeah, yeah. I don't know what made him decide to move to Cariku, but especially Carakou. I know we could talk about that too, but we're not gonna get into that. I just was like, what is happening? So why do you think they call him skinny Banton?

SPEAKER_04 10:54

He's probably skinny.

Carlene 10:55

Well, he is skinny. I mean, look, I this guy's as they say back home, he's langy or whatever you want to call it, right? But yeah, it's interesting that Grenada is now his home.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

So West Indian people usually give you the name that that best you look at like if you're tall, they call you tall man. If you're fat, you call you fat man, I suppose.

Carlene 11:15

Yeah, yeah. Isn't that an insult though? I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

I mean, it's it's factual.

Carlene 11:21

I don't know if it's an insult, it's factual. Yeah, yeah.

Soca Talk Skinny Banton Favorites

Carlene 11:27

You know what? The one thing that we talk about is music. Music is so popular, like soca, especially during carnival season. And um, obviously, the competition with that is a serious thing. You know what I mean? It's not just about the costumes, it's not just about Juve morning and jab jab, it's about the music. I mean, music is what helps with the celebration. And so I don't know about you. We're talking a little bit briefly, but have you heard the new song by I always mess up his name, Marshall Montana? Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Marshall Montana, yeah, yeah.

Carlene 12:04

Yeah, so he has a new song for this season, Spice Mask. Well, I mean, just carnival season in general. It's called Party. He spells it weird. It's like P-A-R-D-Y.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Yeah, yeah.

Carlene 12:15

So what do you think of that song? Do you think that's gonna be the winner for Soka Monarch this year?

SPEAKER_04 12:21

Uh I mean, there that's tough because he he he does well and usually wins.

Carlene 12:27

So what about Talpree though? I haven't heard Talpree's new song. I I I don't know if he released anything new, but he is a very popular No I haven't heard anything from Talbury recently.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

I like in terms of like the recent songs I heard from Grenada, is like is like payroll or or capital anthem, those jab jab songs. I've heard those.

Carlene 12:47

Oh, okay. You know, I feel like I remember last year because of the one jab jab song by this one artist, I forgot her name, but she's obviously in the jab scene too, and I remember that song, right? But I feel like with music, it's so hard to keep up sometimes with the Ahsoka scene, just new music in general. And I I feel like I'm still listening to old music now. Like, you know, they always play what's her that song, Roll It Gail, or um, there's a there's a lot of older songs that they play during carnival season because obviously there's a history, a lot of people like the song, but there's every year there's always the latest song, the newest one. You know, we have to keep up with the Joneses here. And so when it comes to music, what do you think makes a good soca song? Because I find a lot of these soca songs it feels like all you need is one good line. You don't even need like a good chorus, as long as you have two lines. Sometimes some of these songs, you know, only have a few words, a few phrases in them. What do you think?

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Well, you need to have something that's catchy, yeah, uh and with a good rhythm. So you that's a combination. Soka's is different from other genres, whereas the music is is usually light, uplifting, and and fun. So if you have something boring, then you're not gonna get the people listening to it or people playing it, right?

Carlene 14:14

Yeah, yeah. And so out of the artists that have come out recently, who's your favorite? Do you have a favorite Ahsoka artist?

SPEAKER_04 14:23

I've been listening a lot to um Mikhail Teja.

Carlene 14:26

Oh, who's that? Oh, I I have to check this person out. Yeah, and oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:31

Yeah, I like his is he did a remix to um David Rutter's Trinity to a Bone. Trinity to the Bone, sorry.

Carlene 14:37

Oh, Trinity to the Bone, yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

And I I like his other song called Higher Power. It's it's yeah, like his all of his songs recently, I like all of them. I've been listening to his stuff lately.

Carlene 14:48

Oh, okay. So you like him and I like Slata. Now, not everybody likes Slata, and the reason I don't know, I just thought like when he came to the scene, there was just something so weird about Slata because I just thought it was weird that you could just talk about doo-doo and that'd be a catchy song. I mean, it was different. I just thought, you know, you know who he is. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

I didn't I didn't know you were into him.

Carlene 15:18

Right? I know. I he's my repeat artist. I think even there was another song that for Christmas time, I was like, ooh, I like this song that he just released here. And so I don't know. You know what? The reason I like Slata is because he does things that are a little bit weird. I don't know. I I think the one song that he talks about, like he's behind a garbage truck, he's clearly in doo-doo. And I I just thought it was it was weird, but it was also sending a message that you really don't need to have a clean song. Like it it could be a song that has a hidden message or that's different. But I don't know why I liked it. I just did. I thought he was like a little bit out there with his lyrics. I don't know why, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Yeah, as long as you have, like I said, as long as you have one thing that's catchy and and it has a good rhythm, then you're good to go.

Carlene 16:12

Yeah, yeah, it's clearly that.

What A Good Soca Song Needs

Carlene 16:15

And this year in Grenada Carnival, it will be next month. Obviously, it's usually the right after carnivar here in Toronto, and it's usually the the costumes, the music, and the people. And so you know what? While we're talking about that, I was looking at the numbers, and I don't know if you know this, but when you're going to carnival, you have to invest a certain amount of money if you want to have a good time. Like we're talking about spending money on a costume, where you're gonna stay, how many parties you're gonna go to, and just the overall experience. And so I don't know how much you think the average person should spend to have a good time in Grenada, but if you were to, you know, think of a ballpark figure, like how much do you think you would have to spend to have a good time?

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Hmm. Well, to get to Grenada, it's somewhat expensive. To stay in a hotel in Grenada, it's somewhat expensive.

Carlene 17:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Depending on where you stay and all that good stuff, especially too. So that alone will run you about maybe I don't know, let's say three grand.

Carlene 17:24

Okay. So that's your ballpark number there, okay? And and is and just for flight and stay. Oh, just flight and stay. Okay, so okay, so that's flight and stay. Now, how much do you think it's gonna cost if I wanted to play masks?

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Uh, I don't know. Okay, I could use Trinidad numbers and sort of translate it.

Carlene 17:43

Yeah, so let's use let's use US now US dollars because the rest of the world uses US. Wherever you go, they take American money, right? Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

So then you're looking at about maybe two grand American, I guess? I don't know.

Carlene 17:56

On top of everything else. So you just have three for board and stay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Well, no, well, no, two grand for board and stay, you US. And then maybe another, yeah, maybe another 1500 or two grand, I guess, to play. Yeah.

Carlene 18:10

Okay, so what what's your total in all of this? So how much am I how much am I gonna be spending here, Caron?

SPEAKER_04 18:16

I just say five, five US, five grand.

Carlene 18:19

Okay, okay, that's a good number.

unknown 18:21

Yeah.

Carlene 18:22

All right,

The Real Cost Of Carnival

Carlene 18:23

so I did my homework and I looked it up. Now, the average price to go to Grenada is around during carnival season, if you buy your tickets early, is about eight hundred to a thousand, give or take. Now, right now, if you wanted to book a flight to Grenada right now for Carnival, you're looking at twenty five hundred to three thousand dollars just for the ticket alone right now. And that's because obviously there's not a lot of flights going down to Grenada, right? So from from what the research I've looked into, they're they're saying five to ten thousand US to have a good time during carnival.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Yeah, so so I was right, five.

Carlene 19:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were right. So, and that's I bet you, and that's if you're probably not even gonna do like all the big parties, like if you're just gonna be conservative and be like you, because you said juve morning isn't gonna cost you a lot of money, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:21

You just have to get the I mean when I yeah, when I go Trial Carnival, I don't play mass, I just do juve and all the fets, and then I'm good to go. I don't really need to to to do the yeah. So, yeah, if you do that for Grenada as well, you're good.

Carlene 19:34

Yeah. So out of all the events that you could go to, I think like the cheapest one is of course Monday Night Mass.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

Yeah.

Carlene 19:42

I don't know how much it costs now, but there's I'll I'll break it down for you if you're going and Forever is listening. This is the breakdown for Spice Mass 2025. Okay, so basically the events are Cali Powell. It's a Calypso it's a Calypso competition. I didn't even know about this one. There's Juve, which we're talking about. Spice Mass, the Grand Parade. So obviously on the day of is the parade. And then I think that's about it. They didn't even mention Monday Night Mass. They said the Panorama competition. You ever been to that?

SPEAKER_04 20:16

No, I never been to Panorama. I've always wanted to, but never been.

Carlene 20:19

Yeah, so basically it's um a showcase of steel pan music performances. So obviously, another nice little look at the music scene in Grenada, right? So

Trinidad Carnival Is A Marathon

Carlene 20:31

yeah, it's pretty expensive. And I think, like with anything, it's probably I know someone who went to because since you I'm from Grenada, you're originally from Trinidad. I I mean you're both sides of the corn here. Like, I mean, you've lived in both countries. And so we talked about Grenada. How much do you think you'd need to have a good time in Trinidad? Because these people party for the whole month. Like, I mean, it's next level, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:57

We're in Trinidad, yeah.

Carlene 20:58

In Trinidad, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Oh, that's like about three months.

Carlene 21:01

Three months. Okay, so I'm clearly wrong. Three months? Okay, so break it, break it down for me here.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

I mean, three months if you don't include Christmas, because it's parang. Like it's parang, right? So from December.

Carlene 21:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:15

Boxing day hits it's it's straight fat up until Carnival, which is in February, right?

Carlene 21:22

Yeah. So this is this is like a this is like a marathon.

SPEAKER_05 21:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlene 21:28

Wow. I mean, I've never gone for the event, but I mean, just being in the airport, I'm like, yo, Carnival is serious here, you know? This is this is this is this is a big deal. So how do you think like in terms of like if you were to like obviously between Trinidad and Grenada, which is you know, uh insurgence now of the jab jab culture, and they're they're sending a message clearly. How do you think Grenada would have like what kind of plan if you were to to To try and get more people to go down to Grenada. What do you think people would entice them to go there for vacation or even just for carnival?

SPEAKER_04 22:09

What would entice people to go Grenada?

Carlene 22:10

Yeah, yeah. Cause you know, a lot of people like when they go away, they're like a lot of people go to Florida, obviously less now, but they don't think to go to Grenada or Trinidad. Like, I mean, more or less Trinidad's up there, and so is Jamaica, like in terms of the numbers. But Grenada's slowly picking up, but we're not seeing like tourist numbers like we would in Trinidad. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 22:31

How about this? Maybe should I get an uh somebody who's living in Grenada now to ask them to come on?

Carlene 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

I can ask them to join.

Carlene 22:39

No way. Is this really happening? Wow.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Yeah. But I guess my take from what I know, I would say, because Grenada's already known for tourism. They're already known, they're known mainly as a honeymoon destination.

Carlene 22:55

It is, it is. Sandals Resort. Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

Known as a carnival destination, like you're saying, right? So it's it's it's a good question. Um, I don't know what you can do more other than advertise mass itself.

Carlene 23:09

Exactly. And so they're already doing it on social media. It's become a thing. And last year, sorry?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

I've not seen it on social media.

Carlene 23:18

Oh, I think on Instagram they're really doing a good job.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

You're listening to Nutmeg Nation with Carlene Humphrey. Listen, learn, and be a part of Grenada.

Carlene 23:29

Carot,

A Local From Grenada Joins

Carlene 23:30

the fact that you're inviting someone who is in Grenada now to join our conversation is absolutely amazing. Thank you. Yeah, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

So here's Giselle.

Carlene 23:41

Hi, Giselle. Before we start with this conversation, I'm Carleen, and this is not Magnation. I have with me my co-host, my buddy Caron, and he's magically gotten Giselle, who lives in Grenada, to join us. Hi. So as a local, how is it in Grenada right now? How's the weather? Extremely hot. I believe it. I believe it. It's pretty hot here too. So, Giselle, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 24:13

We're gonna ask Giselle all the hard questions because she doesn't have all the answers.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

She's just like I said, that's not true. I do not give me the simplest question there.

Carlene 24:25

Okay, the simplest question is when is pretty mass?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Pretty mass is both first day and second day. So August 11th and 12th this year. The first day is more of uh you're not in costume on the first day. On the first day, you wear something like a swimsuit and you dance along the streets. On the second day is when you come out in your fancy costume.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

So it's just like Trinidad, they have a Monday wear and a pretty mask and a pretty mask costume. So you have two different outfits, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Yeah, yeah. It's like a dressed-down version of the pretty mask outfit.

unknown 24:58

Yep.

Carlene 24:59

Okay, so as far as Spice Mask is concerned, it's it's bringing on a lot of people. People are coming down for carnival, and every year the numbers keep getting bigger and bigger. But if we were to do something to make a bigger impact, what do you think would help Grenada to be a carnival destination for those all over the world? What do we need to tell people?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Do we need to do? At this point, it's more accommodation because by by the end of Carnival Tuesday, places are already booked up for the next year. Um, I don't think there's anything more we could do to advertise. It's just that we need to everybody's already willing to come for the experience. We just have to let them know understand our culture at this point. A lot of people come, but they do not understand what they're coming to experience.

Carlene 25:51

Ooh, wow. Okay, so as someone who has been living in Grenada, how long have you been in Grenada now?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

27 years.

Carlene 25:58

So most of your life? My entire life. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining the conversation. I think you're going to be the person to help me and Karen share the word. So, what is the experience like in Grenada? I know, personally speaking, that Grenada is pretty calm in comparison to Toronto. Common once you're going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

In terms of, yeah. Well, Grenada is one of the safest Caribbean islands. You could walk the streets at any hour and feel safe. The experience is just being when you when you're here, you you feel a different spirit. There's like there's just this spirit once you on the island. Like being in Toronto or being in um in America or any places, you hear about Carnival, and it's like, yeah, coming off a carnival. But the the being in Carnival itself and experiencing the events itself is a totally different feeling.

Carlene 26:53

I think you I think you said it best because you know what? There's one thing I'm I've only been to Carnival to Spice Mask once. And I was shocked. Caron, I went and I was like, on the Caronage, I couldn't believe it. Like on the day of the parade, I'm like, no one's gonna try and jump on the truck or do anything crazy.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Like you know, but but remember what I told you how the difference between having the carnival here in Canada or in North America versus the Caribbean.

Culture Versus Hype At Mas

SPEAKER_04 27:25

People understand the culture back home, they understand the meaning of things, like, and that's why the purpose of us doing playing mass and doing this and doing that, different juve, all that stuff, they understand the history behind it. Whereas here, people don't know anything, they just want to jump on and whine and and try and get a girl or whatever the case is. People don't know the the people don't understand the meaning here.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

They just no, they yeah. They see hype, they see vibes, and that's it. They're ready to just you know, jump for jumping up sick and dancing. They don't really know why they're jumping out, why they're dancing.

Carlene 27:58

Whereas you feel like Grenadians actually see it in a different light.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Or, well, I mean, we we kind of do because for job job, there's a meaning behind job job, there's a reason we do job job, there's the vehicle, there's a reason for the vehicle as well. Shoty, there's a reason for the shotney. Everything, every part of the culture has a history. There isn't um a band called the Indian Band. There is, you know, there is different cultures, there's different meaning behind different aspects in carnival, but people mostly just know about the jab jab and the fancy mass.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Yeah, there you go. Actually, you know what? Can you answer this question for me? Because when I was growing up in Grenada, it was always Chutney and Jab Jab, right? Do you have an idea as to why jab jab surpasses Chutney so much?

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Well, I think because that's what we use as a main marketing um item. It's different from other Caribbean islands. Is and the meaning behind jab jab is much deeper than I guess the other aspects of Carnival itself. I mean, you could go to any Caribbean island, don't to Jamaica, and be in a fancy costume. There's other Caribbean Islands that has Vecco. Not much Caribbean Islands has shot me. But Jab Jab has I think Grenada is one of the well recently I learned St. Vincent has something similar, but I'm not sure of the meaning or what is if it's similar or if it's been there for ages. But just you know, job job, the meaning behind job job and the experience and how you feel, and you know, just that brings out the difference for the job job in Grenada. But I think it's just mainly used as a marketing because it's what people draw themselves to know.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

Okay. Yeah, I know the there's job job in Trinidad, job job, there's blue job job in Trinidad, they're gonna do the the Juve in Trinidad use paint. Yes, and the job job there use tar.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Well, we use oil oil and tar.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

There you go. Okay, so alright, just marketing. All right.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

To me, it's marketing, you know, they market more now, but to Grenadians, it's a form of I don't want to say rebellion, but you know, that's how they express themselves. Yeah, like recently the prime minister said it's too early for juve, it's too early for job job. That's the most you've seen job jobs since because I remember that. Everybody, you know, every weekend, every Sunday morning, I'll be heading to church and I'm seeing people heading to to to go to go jab it up, you know.

Carlene 30:28

Yeah,

Jab Jab Versus Chutney Explained

Carlene 30:30

so there's one more question I have for you, Giselle. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this on the spot. This is unreal. I don't think I've ever seen Caron pull out the magic hand here. I was like, what? Someone's someone's joining us in a conversation now? You're able to do that. So, Giselle, there's a lot of misconception, there's a lot of misunderstanding with Jabjab. When it comes to people who are religious, if you're Christian, Catholic, whatever religious denomination you are, there is a negative message behind jabjab, which is associated with the devil. What do you think about that? Do you think that jabjab is sending the message that this is unlike unholy, it's wrong, they're you know?

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Um, I won't say it's unholy because last year we had one of um one of the Catholic priests partaking in the jabjab celebration. He, you know, if you understand the truth cultural and deep meaning behind jab job, you wouldn't say it's uh it's devilish or whatever. I guess the meaning itself, jab job, if my memory serves me well, means some I think it means something about the devil, and I guess yeah, it is the term jab jab. I looked it up just yeah, we're gonna give context. But that's only because the slave owners said we looked like the devil. They called us the devils. Yes, they did. That was just our way of you know mocking them. Say you're calling us the devil, then we're gonna make ourselves look like the devil. That's the you know, the so that's why when I see people with uh mackerel or something in their mouth and they put red color in, you know? Yeah. And they they pin themselves in full black because you're already calling us the devil, so why not be the devil? So it's based on what meaning you wanna say that you wanna see it as. If you understand the cultural meaning, you will never see it as it being the devil's work. But as a as a Christian, you don't ever want to associate yourself with nothing pertaining that you know, with the devil. So you you could understand both sides of it.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Yeah, see. Again, it goes back to people not understanding the culture, especially here, right? Who just pretend that they just want to dance, but they don't know the meaning behind stuff.

Is Jab Jab Devilish Or Not

Carlene 32:47

And so I'm gonna add to that based on my research here. And so Jab Jab is a powerful expression of Grenadian identity, resilience, and cultural pride. And I remember interviewing the organizer of Grenada Day here in Toronto. Her name is Maria Myers, and she said that Grenadians are a resilient people, they are strong-minded people. They're even though they are a small community of people, they do band together. And they say that when you do things, if you can find a small group, they can take over. And so it seems to me that when you look at the images with Jab Jab, just the Jab Jab alone, there the numbers just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And even though there's that negative message with Jab Jab, if you understand the true identity behind it, it's sending a strong message to the rest of the world in terms of Grenada as a country. You know, for me, I created this show because I'm gonna tell you guys, I had someone who used to make jokes about Grenada. It was one of my coworkers back in the day. He's from Jamaica, right? And so we'd always have this banter back and forth. And it used to annoy me because he would say things like, Grenada is such a small island. He's like, Look, Carleen, it's not even on this map. And I'm like, that's a different kind of map. It's not a world map, uh, because it was on the back of an agenda or something I had. But for me, when someone kept saying over and over again that Grenada is so small, I'm like, I need to do something about this, even though I don't live in Grenada. I feel that I have to leave a strong message behind because Grenada is a beautiful place. And I think people need to know about Grenada, no matter how small we are. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 34:42

Like we can't take Jamaican people seriously when they're teasing.

Small But Talawa Grenadian Pride

Carlene 34:47

I know, I know, I know, I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

If they try if they tease you, if they tease you again, just say, look, Jamaicans don't own anything in Jamaica. So why are you coming to me?

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Once you sell Grenada, they small Grenadians would always say we small but we talawa. Yeah. Oh well, oh, say that again. We small, but we talawa. Ah, and what does that mean? Talawa. What the same thing as you're saying, you know, we maybe small, we're dig in spirits, you know. We yeah, we could take over any space. Imagine you see a lot of TikToks now of people making videos, and one guy was like, he goes to a party and then he'll start scanning. As soon as he gets a drink, he'll start scanning the area. And once he sees a Grenadian flag, he goes directly to that to that section because Grenadians know how to enjoy themselves. Even though we're small, we're big in spirit, we're big as a community. Once you see one person try to this grenade, the whole grenade comes for you. No, I believe it. No, you're right. Yeah, they have no idea what's happening, but they will they they one thing Grenadians band together for is for Grenada.

Carlene 35:50

Yeah. No, I believe you when you say that. And I think some Grenadians are very humble. And I think when I started this journey when I created this show, I didn't know like how it would transpire, but I do believe what you're saying because I think they're like, even though you're a Grenadian and you've made a name for yourself, I think they're humble people. Like I I interviewed Karani James and I never thought, Giselle, that would happen. But when it happened, I couldn't believe it because I thought to myself, you know, this person is so humble, even though he's on the national scale. Like he's on at the Olympics, he's you know, running for Grenada, and you know, we know him now.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

So I've met him and Victor and Anderson Peters, and they're all amazing people. I've never really had a conversation with Kirani, but I've I've been walking in an area where he ran before in our first invitational, and such an amazing person. But they are these people, you see, those Grenadians who are on the map and making a name for themselves and putting Grenada out there, they are such amazing people.

Carlene 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

And I know Kirani is very humble, he's such a quiet guy.

Carlene 37:06

He is, he is.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

So, like when yeah, come at you for him, like they will come at you. Don't say anything about Kirani. Two people think that they might be bad for you, Kirani and Mr. Killer.

Carlene 37:18

Right, right. Yeah, actually, that's one thing we didn't talk about when we talk about Carnival, Mr. Killer. I guess we could say one more thing.

Soka Monarch Picks And Newcomers

Carlene 37:27

Ask you what's your favorite song right now in terms of for Soka Monarch for this year.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Well, for power soca, um, Buddha 473, 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, uh, money, payroll. Those are my two favorite.

Carlene 37:44

And who do you think is gonna win?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Ah, it's a tough one because Dash is really good too. Dash me Dash has a really good team. Like this year will be exciting because the faces that we accustomed to now we know for years are all given the younger generation opportunity because we are we are we have we have Tara the Governor, we have Dash, we have Muddy, we have Buddha, we have a lot of new faces joining. We even have this guy, I've heard about his music last year, and this year I really took the time to sit down and listen to his music, and I'm like, wow, he really could sing, you know. I think his name is Ruji Atmosphere. I could be wrong, but it's something of that, and you know, we just have a lot of young talents coming in now. We have in the groovy, we have a well, she plays in a band, her name is Sakina, and I just I didn't realize she was partaking in Groovy this year, and she has such an amazing voice because she does live band music as well, so you know she already could captivate a crowd. So, yeah, we we have a few amazing artists coming up, but for me, the top, my um I'm forever a Dash fan, but I'm not into his song yet, so hopefully by by by by the finals, um, I I could get the I could you know get the the feelings for that song. But for me, muddy, payroll, and buddha for 73, 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. That's what the power soaker that is.

Carlene 39:06

Power soca. For those of us that don't know what that is, I don't know. Power soca. Caram, do you know what power soaker is?

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Of course. Anything power moves the crowd, basically. Oh that's how you get to sort of a good definition for it.

Carlene 39:22

Clearly, you know I haven't gone to Carnival in a long time. Not even the one here in Toronto, Giselle. I have not been to Carabana since 2010. It's like, oh my gosh, 15 years. Wow, I'm overaging myself, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

I've only I've only been to Caribana once, and that was in like 2014. Mm-hmm. So did Caron invite you? No, Caron did not bring me, they let me take the train. By the time we got there, he was done. I didn't get to experience anything much.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

We invite Giselle up.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Oh my gosh. Don't worry, Caron.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

We invite Giselle up every year.

Carlene 39:59

Giselle, Giselle, I'm gonna take that part out of the recording. Especially when we brought you on as a guest. I was like, this is amazing, clearly.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

I was just a teenager at the end time.

Carlene 40:15

So oh, okay, so you've grown up now. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

So

Cold Canada Visit Stories

SPEAKER_01 40:20

I was up there, I was up last February. So I you see the plan was to be there for the summer, but things didn't work out as we planned. I was actually I surprised him, he didn't know I was coming.

Carlene 40:33

Oh my god, some people don't do that anymore. You know, when you're you're when you're not when you're in a neighborhood and you're you you're just gonna go by your neighborhood. Hey, I'm in the neighborhood, uh, I'm coming to say hi. Like, people don't do that anymore. Not you know, everybody got surprised. No, none of the cousins knew what he knew. Wow, and you came for our like winter. That's unheard. Like my aunt even told me she's gonna come for a winter one year. I still haven't seen her come for winter. So as a Grenadian, how how did how how did you like our our Canadian winter? No, my intestines were trembling.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

I not mean again. That is hilarious. Oh I'm seeing like I'm seeing our cut me and Keran's cousins in you know, in summer clothes, short skirts, and crop tops, and me, um in the biggest jacket you could find, the longest pants you could find, with the most comfy shoes.

Carlene 41:28

Yeah, well, you know what? We we just we just have to be warm. Okay, so one last thing. If

What You Cannot Miss In Grenada

Carlene 41:35

anyone is listening right now and they feel like they're gonna come down to Grenada for carnival between Monday night mass, pretty mass and juve morning. What's the top thing that they have to experience while they're down there?

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Nobody can miss juve morning. I mean, juve morning is the beginning, it's the beginning of everything. You you cannot miss juve. Even if you go for like two hours and then you head home to rest for fancy mass, you cannot miss juve. Juvet on its for itself is a total different experience, and then you have options. You have Grenville Juvet and you have Tongue Juvet, right? Wait, Grenville Juvet? What? Yes, Grenville has a juvenile kind of a Monday, as well as St. George's has them juvenile on Monday, and on Tuesday, there's juvet in St. David's and St. Patrick. You get to you get to choose the different juvet options.

Carlene 42:29

This is news to me. Like, I'm I'm a city girl, like whenever I go down to visit, like I'm from Gran Anne's, so I didn't even know that Granville has their own juve too. Not that I'm going to the country, but just like their own carnival too.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

Granville has their own.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

I when I was younger, we used to play in the Parkley band. So I played fancy mass with um kid is cannibal with park. Then he had beans, you know, he had different bands playing, and then you know, we have Capital Job is from Grenville.

Carlene 43:03

I am learning something new. So, you know, you said you can't miss out one without the other, and then obviously Juve morning.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

If you're coming back to Carnival, you want to experience everything, especially if it's your first time. You want a little piece of everything. So I wouldn't say I won't put one above the other, but it's mostly your preference. So if you don't want to with oil and all that, then juve is most likely not for you. But if you want to experience the culture and be a part of everything and come to see, you know, get get your money's worth for the ticket prices that I'm seeing. You would want to be a part of everything. So kind of on Monday, Juvent morning, then you have on the road fancy um Monday wear. That's a Monday kind of fancy mask. Then after that, you have Monday Night Mask. Monday Night Mask is more of a classy something where you're just shipping on the road from Grann's come down in a t shirt, and or nowadays they have like different options t shirt, crop top, there is the bodysuit. You have different options, you know. You just shipping from Granals with your lights, cause it's lights, so depending on what is the theme of the band, you have those lights, and you know, it's just same thing where you know they'll tell you swing left, swing right, you know, and all the lights in the skies. Trust me, it's a really good experience as well. Then Carnival Tuesday, you either go St. David's or you go St. Patrick for Juvent morning, and then end it with your fans with the um fancy mastery cannibal costumes in either St. George's or Granville.

Carlene 44:29

Wow, I am speechless right now, but I can't afford to go to Grenada now because the tickets are too expensive, Giselle. You know? The price went up.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

That's what I think is one of the problems that we have in with, I guess too. It's a kind of a control because during those times, so I would sometimes I just feel like the island will sink with the among the people that are beyond it. Because you walk into St. George's on a juvenile morning and it's just crowd upon crowd, you know? Everybody's present. And you they even have jab bands, so you depend, you know, you have different bands that you could you could be a part of. And I didn't even forgot to mention that I'm not sure if they still do it, but Grenville still has Tuesday night mass as well. Same effect as Monday Night Mass, the t-shirts, the lights, and the chipping around the streets of Grenville. I'm not too sure if they still have it happening, but I know it's it was a it was something that used to happen.

Carlene 45:25

Well,

Vibes By Parish Beyond St George’s

Carlene 45:26

there's one more thing I'd like to add is that Guave, the this is the city that doesn't sleep. So, because I know someone from Guave, and when I went down last time, I think she was started partying way before I like before she even before they like they're serious. Like the day she landed, I think I called her later on that day and she was already ready to party. I'm like, you just got here, right? But yeah, it's a serious thing, right? In Guave.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Well, I mean, mass in general is serious.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

I mean the island on a whole, you know, because sometimes I'll be home and I'm I live in Birchgrove in the middle of the island, and I will be here and I'll hear me hear music in Borgia, you'll make take a like a driver, they could walk up, and there are the guys in the in the road enjoying themselves. We have something in Birch Grove called Mountain Jam. And that's they would have a truck going up to what we have called Sensei Mountain. Everybody behind the truck chipping, go up to the mountains to enjoy the to enjoy a little, you know, a little job session. It does in this one doesn't really have like old oil and all that, it's just pure fun, vibes, enjoyment. And then we have something else in Brush Cook called River Fest. They water, they'll sprinkle water on you, music, vibes, and and enjoying yourself. You know, it's just that different parts of the country have their own little vibes. Guav always every bar you want to be bar hopping from bar to bar. And you know, you always end that um what they call that bar in I think it's Shaiz Bar. Where's that? In Guav, I believe that's the name of it. In Guav. You always end at that bar because that's where the majority of the vibes is. You know, St. Davis have their own vibes, everybody have their own little Saint Andrew on a whole, you know. Yeah, Saint Andrew is the biggest parish. So everybody, every little inroad you go, there's a bar there, and there's people enjoying themselves.

Carlene 47:15

So next to Trinidad, Grenadians really are bringing bringing a name for themselves. Like I think I I mean I talked to another Trinidadian last year, and she said that she couldn't keep up with you know the vibes as you call it, right? So clearly we are we're doing something and it's working. And and you're part of the experience. So are you playing this year? This is my last year for some time. Yes, I'm playing fancy mask this year. Oh, very nice. So I hope you have a great time. And I want to thank you, Giselle, for joining us and giving us a little taste of Grenada.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

So nice of you.

Final Thanks And Where To Message

Carlene 47:56

I'm Carleen, and this is Not Magnation with Caron and our special guest, Giselle.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Thank you for listening to Nut Magnation with Carlene Humphrey. Send us a message on Instagram at Diva underscore tonight.