Life After 40: Single, Thriving, and Unapologetic

We explore the liberating experience of being a woman in your 40s, discussing everything from the freedom of singlehood to late-diagnosed ADHD and challenging societal expectations.

• Finding freedom from caring about others' opinions after turning 40
• Choosing a child-free life and being confident in that decision
• Discovering and managing ADHD as an adult and being gentler with yourself
• Enjoying single life and learning to do things independently
• Challenging traditional expectations about marriage and relationships
• The benefits of singlehood for women's happiness and life satisfaction
• Learning to present your authentic self in relationships
• Finding clarity about career and life goals later in life

Follow me on Instagram at diva_tonight and find my guest Jen Kay at XJPotion on Twitter. Tune into Jen's weekly radio show on 92.9 the Grand and 88.5 the Lake on Sunday nights from 8 to midnight.

Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Jen and Her Radio Career
• 2:19 Reflecting on Turning 40
• 5:15 The Decision About Having Children
• 13:38 Discovering and Managing ADHD
• 22:04 The Freedom of Being Single
• 30:04 Dating Apps and Meeting People Naturally
• 35:59 Challenging Traditional Marriage Expectations
• 43:12 Final Thoughts and Show Wrap-up

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Hi, I'm Carlene and this is Diva Tonight, a podcast about women in their 40s and a female perspective on this stage of life. We'll be talking about dating and why single life might be for you. I have in front of me my colleague like we went to humber together jennifer coalition. She is creative writer, producer, office manager and announcer for 92.9, the grand right yeah, hats there right.

Speaker 2: 0:37

Yeah, we have a cluster of stations, so it's not just that one, but yeah, oh, what are the other stations? I know there's a few, right yeah, we got kx 94.7, our country station, uh 88.5, the lake, well, oshawa. We have uh 94.9, the rock, kx 96 and ckdo and we're actually just like oh, we have a station in vancouver, now we're launching some in peterborough, so there's a lot going on wow, lots going.

Speaker 1: 1:00

Yeah, that's keeping you busy for sure. I don't know if you know this, but our old classmate, erin, she said that she didn't. She listens to 92.9 the grand and I told her I'm like that's where Jen works. She's like, oh, I had no idea. I'm like, yeah right, you've been there like quite a few years now. Is it over like a decade? Like how long?

Speaker 2: 1:20

yeah, it'll be. I think 12 years this year that I'm at this company Wow and the brand launched in 2016. So I've been with them since day one.

Speaker 1: 1:29

Wow, that's amazing. How does that feel, though?

Speaker 2: 1:32

Like to be to feel old.

Speaker 1: 1:41

That's how I feel old too. Like talking to you now, because it's just like when we think about Humber and like our memories there and like how much time we spent in the studio, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:48

And just to think that that was you know 13 years ago is just mind boggling to me.

Speaker 1: 1:53

I know I was just like wow, where did the time go? Like every time I think about it, I can't believe. Like you know, we're in our 40s, Right? So how? What did you do for your 40th birthday?

Speaker 2: 2:05

A whole bunch of stuff. I think I went on two trips in the same month. I took a trip to Vegas with my mom because she had never been and I was like, hey, let's go party up in Vegas. I went on an emo cruise so it's like a music festival cruise, essentially with my friend CJ, which was super fun, and I had a big birthday party at my house. That's what I did for my 40th.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Nice, how many people showed up at your house party. I know your house Jen throws a good house party. I'm going to say that I remember you used to.

Speaker 1: 2:39

I mean. The one thing I did like, though, was like I mean, I was annoyed at the Leafs always playing in the background. I'm like, oh my gosh, that is like nothing has changed right, I mean the Leafs are like we're isn't tonight. There's a game on tonight, right, but getting back to your house parties, so yeah, Jen threw a good house party. Like there's always music. If she's not playing guitar, some of her friends are and I'm like, wow, this is so cool.

Speaker 2: 3:05

I feel like I'm at like a live, you know so, yeah, I had a DJ a couple of times, like, yeah, yeah, I like to do this. I mean, there was about 20 people here for my 40th. So not as big of a rager as.

Speaker 2: 3:19

I used to throw, but it was. It was nice because my most of my friends are in Toronto, so to get them to come to Hamilton is not always easy, but my birthday is the one time of year where I'm like you guys are coming to see me because it's my birthday.

Speaker 1: 3:30

Yeah, I mean, it was probably easier when you lived in Toronto, and just like you, I'm not even in Toronto either. I live in Brampton. I've been here for like four years, going on five. But yeah, it's crazy, right. Yeah, when you get older, your friends.

Speaker 2: 3:46

Just you know well not me personally but people get married and have kids and get busy and, like you know, even my best friend, I 100% still consider her my best friend, but I only see her like once every couple months maybe because she's so busy, I'm so busy and it's just it's so hard to coordinate. Like she probably sees moms in her neighborhood more than she sees me, but that's just because, like, our lives have kind of gone in different directions and we've moved apart.

Speaker 1: 4:12

And you know it's, it's certainly harder to maintain relationships when you're this age, but you really find out like who your, your people are, because those are the people that you still go back to after all these years and you can see them once every three months and that's okay, that's just how life is now yeah, you know what, speaking of seeing friends, like close friends, like my one friend, he's actually, oh, like he's my one of my closest friends and I met him when I was at York and I've known him for like 20 years too and I just saw him on a whim because I mean I didn't plan the trip but I couldn't believe it was seven years since we've seen each other. Like I mean, we'd have to yes, either come to Toronto, I go to Calgary, you know. So I get what you're saying. With that, you also mentioned the one thing your friend is obviously a mom, and that's totally different than your whole experience, and I think that's the one thing that I don't know.

Speaker 1: 5:02

I think it makes you think when you get to 40, about like, whether or not you see yourself having kids I mean me and you especially, because we're both in the same boat like I don't have any kids and I don't know if that's gonna happen. Like I still feel, like I'm pondering about it, like I'm not, I've never thought that I would be a mom. Like like some people already know, like when they're in their early thirties. I don't know, like, how do you feel, like now that you're at this stage in your life, about the whole thing, you know.

Speaker 2: 5:34

I made a decision years ago that I didn't want kids. It's just not something I don't know. I just know too much about myself to know that like I would not be a happy mother. I'm not saying I'd be a bad mom, I would love my kids if I had them. You know, that's just how it goes. But in terms of where I want my life to go, like that, never. Kids never fit into that properly.

Speaker 2: 5:54

And I mean until very, very recently, I was single for quite a long time too, and I just like, as I got older too, I was like, you know, I can't imagine having a teenager when I'm in my late 50s. You know I want to be almost retired by then, so that I like, at this point now, absolutely not, I do not want kids. And I, my cousins there's three of them that have had had kids later, like in their 40s, one of them in their late 40s and they're thrilled, they're happy, they love their lives, but for me I still it's not something that I ever really wanted. Like there was a very brief time in my life where I thought, maybe because my partner wanted them but he actually passed away, so that after that happened it was just like nah, I'm just, I'm back to my.

Speaker 2: 6:39

I've been like since I was a teenager I was like I don't want kids. I've always had that mentality. So it was like it took one person to kind of make me like, okay, maybe, but then you know, and I'm back to like I have no interest in children. I love them, I love having kids, but I love giving the kids back to their parents. I don't want to be the one having to take care of them and deal with it and it's just like I know I have. So I've, you know, recently discovered I have ADHD and like all this stuff.

Speaker 2: 7:06

That like I'm, I'm still learning about myself and it's like I couldn't imagine having to take care of another kid like, or like a kid, someone else in my life who I know I would prioritize. So that's my personality, but I have hard enough time taking care of myself. So I can't imagine life like that. And like some people are absolutely the complete opposite. Like my best friend, she always wanted kids and like she waited. She didn't have until she was in her late 30s, so they're just little now, but she always wanted them. That just never changed in her mind, whereas me, like I knew from a young age I didn't want them, and that didn't really change for me.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Yeah, no, I can relate to that. I think for me, because I took care of my siblings at such a young age, having to take them out and try to find creative things for us to do on like not lots of money and I'm like this is a lot, I don't think. I think that kind of made me realize too at a younger age I'm like I don't know if I want to be a mom. This is a lot of work, like work, like you know, and I was just their big sister and having to be like oh yeah, I have to take them to the park in the summer or maybe I'll figure out like that kind of thing and just hearing you talk about that being not wanting to be a mom and knowing from a young age in your life and then another thing you're learning that you have ADHDhd it explains a lot of my whole life and I'm much gentler with myself now because I I used to be like what's wrong with me, why can't I function like a normal person?

Speaker 2: 8:33

and now I know why because my brain doesn't function properly. So that's been a huge, huge, like change.

Speaker 1: 8:39

Wow I have not talked about that openly and, hearing you say it, I have ADHD too and I got. It took COVID for me to finally go to see a doctor Get assessed because I'm like I have anxiety. But it was a lot worse, jen. Like when I got laid off and like not having a schedule or routine and going to work, I couldn't believe it. I was like four hours a day like not sleeping and I was just like I need to figure out what's wrong, cause it's not just my anxiety. You know what I mean, so I can totally relate. I couldn't believe when you said that, I was like wow, yeah, and it's it.

Speaker 2: 9:22

It just explains so much of my life to me that I'm like, okay, and like again, like I said, it's so much more gentle with myself now because, like I, I recognize that, like there's not something wrong with me, there's a way my brain functions is different from a neurotypical person, so, like, just having that knowledge has been incredibly valuable because now I can I recognize that, you know, because I'm that kind of ADHD where, like there's something on the floor and I need to pick it up, but I'll walk over it 30 times before I actually pick it up. It's that executive function problem. But now it's like I'm like Jen, just pick it up as I have to talk, okay, adhd brain, I'll just pick that up, it'll take you 30 seconds. And like timers have been a big thing for me, where I'm like I'm going to do the thing for 30 minutes that I don't want to do because I'm not getting any dopamine from that, but I set a timer and the timer goes off and I'm like, well, I might as well just finish it, like those little tricks that I'm literally playing tricks on my own brain to help me function better.

Speaker 2: 10:24

But yeah, realizing that late in life has just been incredible for me because it explains so much of my life and it helps me understand myself so much better. It's really helped me heal and reflect on, you know, everything from school to family to, like relationships, partners, all the things that have happened in my life, all the problems you know, and when I just didn't know why things weren't working or why, you know, I would have these personality traits that I just could not change, like being messy, for example, like I'm generally my place, like living around. Right now it's, it's, yeah, looks pretty good to me.

Speaker 2: 11:03

But you know, then I'll have a week where I'm just not good at that and I come downstairs to my apartment and there's cups everywhere and there's recycling and my bedroom's a mess and my clothes are everywhere and I'm like, how did I? Then I'll clean it and then I'll be fine for a week. You know, but it's just little things like that. They used to drive my partners insane when they'd be like, just pick your stuff up. And it's not that I would hear that and be like, well, screw you, I don't want to do it. I would literally leave the room and it was gone. It's not like I was intentionally doing these things to annoy a partner, Like I just literally my brain, just the function of my brain, was just off. But I'm recognizing that now. It's like I'm, like I said, more gentle and kind to myself but also at the same time like more firm, like just just do the thing.

Speaker 1: 11:53

Like, as long as you have the reminders, like I have to have reminders around. My thing is laundry. Like I I think my mom made me a clean freak in a way with that but like, yeah, like you said, the laundry it'll be. Like I'll do the laundry, but it takes me sometimes a week to put it away, where sometimes I'm like, okay, just put it away, cause then in the morning you're not looking where's the socks, where's this? And I'm telling you, like there's been so many times I've lost earphones.

Speaker 1: 12:23

I'm like, where did I put it? Like why, yeah, why did I not put it back in the same place? And I've found one. I found out in the front yard, in the driveway. Some car drove over it. So I was like, oh, this is, and this is why I don't buy expensive earphones. Another one, oh my god, I lost like three or four of them. So, hearing you say the whole messy thing, messy, um, yeah, I have my moments where I'm just like, okay, I can't do the dishes right now, I have to. Like you know what I mean, certain things where I'm like, okay, I'll do it when I get home, or I get fixated on it and not realize like I have my, my days. But yeah, like you said, being kind to yourself is so important. Because you just like, I think I can understand what you're saying, because there's so many moments when I was younger I'm like why am I like this?

Speaker 2: 13:13

like, yeah, there's exactly those lines. Why am I?

Speaker 1: 13:17

like now oh my gosh, I was the worst in class. Like I, if the class was boring, I'd like daydream or drift off. Yeah, math class, science class, oh my gosh, it was just yeah. And you know, the problem is, too, where your parents just think you're lazy. I remember, yes, watching, I get fixated on a show and be watching something for hours on end. My mom's like get up right now, like what are you doing me watching this for hours. And then, because they think you're just lazy, but like once you, you, once I got fixated on something. Now I get it and I wouldn't want to stop watching something that I found interesting. I didn't want to do anything else. But to someone else like, who is like neurotypical, I guess, is what you say They'd be like think you're lazy, like you just don't want to do anything.

Speaker 2: 14:04

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. And you know, I actually read an article recently I can't remember where it was, but it was talking about like how much negative energy you get, like as an undiagnosed ADHD kid. Yeah, like my bedroom was always messy and like I loved when it was clean and I felt so good when I did that. But I would just let it slip and my mom would constantly be on me about it and like call me lazy and call me dirty and call me messy, and it's like you know that as a frustrated parent, I would have done the exact same thing. But neither of us knew that, like I have executive function problems and that, like I literally just need to like make it a game or make it a contest or get her involved to help me get it done, because I couldn't do it, like I would just freeze my brain wouldn't let me do it. I'd be staring at my room like so messy, I hate it and not be able to do anything about it.

Speaker 2: 14:54

But when you're growing up, like from your teachers, from your parents, from your friends, like you're constantly getting this negative thing and oh yeah, the story was basically about how you mask that and you mask it and over the years, you just learn to keep sort of keeping that part of yourself quiet and then how, when you do finally figure out what's going on, like it's like you can finally be like okay, you know what? Yes, I am like this, I'm I'm aware now and I can work on it, but it's been years of me masking this because I was. The thing is, I was always a good student because I would hyper focus in class on whatever it was. I was a speed reader. I like I would go crazy studying for tests because I would hyper focus on all these things whenever I needed to. So it was hard. Like I don't think anyone would have guessed that I would have ADHD and like, even in college, like I was, yeah yeah, I know we didn't have that problem.

Speaker 1: 15:46

Yeah, there's certain subjects I probably didn't like I probably needed a tutor, like in high school. I like you, I I excelled too. I had like I did well in school. But just certain subjects I I needed someone to help me, like math and science. I struggled, yeah, I think well. Then I decided I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do general math. And when I took it I was like excelling. And people are like, why are you in this class? Like you're getting like an A? And I'm like, because advanced math I could barely pass. I had to go to summer school like I can't keep up. They don't slow down for you in advanced math like you, either get it or you don't like we're not waiting for you to catch on, right.

Speaker 1: 16:24

But yeah, like you said, yeah, I, I figured it. I think we like figure it out. Like I had an agenda. I always knew like write things out to keep myself organized in one way or another. But yeah, like you said, knowing is half the battle, like it. Yeah, I mean now, now that you know, and then your mom knows, do you feel like she's like understanding of, like why?

Speaker 2: 16:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:48

Or like how was that conversation? Did you even have it?

Speaker 2: 16:51

I live with my mother we share, so I have a basement apartment and she lives on the main floor. And yeah, this like sort of explaining that to her, you know, I could see her sort of thinking back and remembering all those times and it's like I wasn't like angry at her. Like you, you were mean to me when I had you know, not like that at all, I just like, even as an adult, like again, like you know, when I do let things get messy or I have four cups on the go, because I've forgotten that, you know I already.

Speaker 1: 17:20

I already drinking one drink. Oh yeah, I finished that. Oh, I didn't finish.

Speaker 2: 17:24

Yeah, and oh yeah, you're already drinking one drink. Oh yeah, I finished that. Oh, I didn't finish. Yeah, yeah, and that happens sometimes. So I think she is just more patient with me, because my mom's very clean, you know, and like she's very organized, she's very like she remembers everything. You tell her your name once she remembers it.

Speaker 2: 17:36

You tell her your birthday once she remembers it, which is not how my brain works at all someone tells me their name and like in half a second I've forgotten what their name is. So I think, just like her recognizing that I have these issues, has made her sort of look at me in a different light when she's like, okay, you know, maybe I shouldn't be so judgmental all the time because, like she knows, like I'm not going to let things get to the point where we have rodents crawling around or anything. But you know, there's like there's sometimes like a week where I just my executive function is real bad and I'm messy and I'm forgetful and I'll, like you know, be late for things all week and she used to be like why, you know, just get up earlier, just do that. Like she used to kind of be like what, why can't you just do the thing?

Speaker 1: 18:19

and it's like I know I really can't yeah, I wish, if I could do the thing, I would do it yes.

Speaker 2: 18:25

I want to be able to do the thing. I don't like being late all the time, like it's not something I, I I want to have happen, but it just does because, like time, blindness is a thing and, yeah, it's just. How did we make?

Speaker 1: 18:38

it to class. I remember humber, like I'm like I made it to. I think there was one time I was really late and everyone was shocked. They're like karen, you're always on time. I'm like, maybe if it's something I'm really interested in, but if it's not, or like I'm having a rough time if I get fixated on something, and then I'm like oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 18:55

Now I have like 20 minutes to get ready. Yeah, yeah, I know, but that's not the way I thought our conversation would go. What I'm telling you, like this whole series has been mind blowing. I'm telling you now like it's been like unbelievable what people, what my, my colleagues are sharing about like just being at 40 and being able to talk about certain things. So I'm grateful that you've shared that, because I did not, I would have never known. You know what I mean. So because we both were really good students at Humber. Diva Tonight Glamour for your ears.

Speaker 2: 19:35

This is 40, a female perspective for your ears, this is 40, a female perspective. When you get to this age, you do start to like sort of self-reflect more and you're more curious about why you've done the things you do, and just there's a lot more life to reflect on. At this point I certainly like my attitude, like I remember people always saying you know, once you hit your forties, you're not going to care what anyone thinks about you, you're not going to this. And I was. I was like, oh no, no, I'm very sensitive, I'll always care about that stuff. But it's true, like I really I could care less about what people think about me now and I don't stress out about you know, I still say dumb things all the time and I but I used to dwell on that I go home and I say that you know they're going to think I'm an idiot. Now it's like I don't have those thoughts anymore because I literally don't care, which is very freeing. I mean. I think just as you get older, you really start to know yourself better and for me in particular, like the last four years, I was single, which I hadn't been since I was really 17 years old.

Speaker 2: 20:33

It was like back-to-back relationships One of them was 13 years, but being single over the last four years, I gave me the chance to like rediscover who I am outside of a relationship, you know but also gave me that time to like reflect on my brain, because I was always, you know, I would I would sort of attribute it to a partner as to why I did the thing, you know, when I wasn't taking responsibility for my own brain, but like just having that time and I guess COVID too a lot of time alone and reflecting. And I broke up with my boyfriend, like right before lockdown, like it was a couple of months before lockdown, which I'm grateful for, because I don't think that would have been very well if we were stuck in a house together every single day. But yeah, having that time and then like getting the ADHD diagnosis and all that was just. As you know, it was because I had that time and I was. You know, I'm getting older and reflecting more and being like, hey, there's something not quite right here. I don't know what it is Like. I know I'm not a broken human. I have a job, two jobs, and I function this far. I was like, but there's something that I'm just like I can't get over this. I'm just not functioning the way I want to be functioning, and I now I know why. But yeah, I think just that time alone and maturing emotionally has been a huge change for me and, like I just started dating someone we're almost at three months, so that's for the first time in four years, but this is probably the healthiest relationship I've ever been in and I'm going to say that's probably a big part of that is because of, like, my own emotional intelligence now and just having that time to myself.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Those four years were great. They were very peaceful, you know, and I really loved being able to do what I want, what I want, not have to ask anyone if they want to go, what they want to do. For my 39th birthday, I was like you know what I really just need a relaxing weekend to myself. So I booked a plane ticket to Florida, I bought, I rented an Airbnb and I just flew down there by myself and I spent, I think, like three days there, you know, hanging at the beach, going out to restaurants by myself, like this is something.

Speaker 2: 22:41

In my 20s I never would have done that on my own. There's no way I would have been like I'm just going to go to Florida by myself and enjoy the sunshine in February. That's what I want to do, which is what I did and like I'm so like secure myself and again like going back to the not caring what people think, like I used to like be like, oh, if I'm at a restaurant alone, like what are people going to think of? Now, I love going to restaurants alone. I love doing like going to the movies alone doing I go to concerts alone all the time because, again, it's a hard alone I've done.

Speaker 1: 23:09

I've gone to one. I remember our lady piece someone. I tried to get someone to go with me but they weren't able to, and I'm like I might as well go because I love our lady piece. But right, yeah, no, it's good. And when you can do those things by yourself, I feel like it means that you're comfortable in your own skin. Because I I my one friend, um, who I'm really close with case, and he says that, carleen, you can't always expect that your friends are like you're gonna have someone to go with, like you're to miss out on a lot of things that you enjoy doing if you're always trying to have it go with someone. And he was right, you know what I mean. I think once you start like just going to like for the first time, you're like is this not that bad?

Speaker 2: 23:50

Yeah, and I just really in my head too, excuse me was happy being single and I, like I've never been on a dating app in my life, so that's not something I even ever tried. Oh, I just like there's a few people I was talking to, but it was like I just really lost interest in dating people because the last few relationships were just awful and I was one of them. I was really trying to force him to love me, you know, and I was like what am I? What am Like, why I don't need this? And I think just you know what is. So I guess I was single from 37 to 41.

Speaker 2: 24:28

All those years, like again, it was like my friends started having kids and getting married and then I couldn't just call them up on a random Tuesday and be like oh, you want to go to this concert tonight. So I was just like you know what? I'm just going to go alone. Contrary to what you think, I love going to concerts alone because I again can walk wherever I want. I can go in the mosh pit if I want, I can stand at the back, I can do whatever I want, whereas, like, when you're with a group or with other people, you have to constantly be checking in and making the plans with the group, and the same with travel. Like I, I flew to scotland alone, I flew to florida alone.

Speaker 2: 25:01

I done all these things on my own and I'm really grateful for that time with myself because I was like you know what, I'm actually pretty fun to hang around and you know, like I don't need other people and I like for me, a big thing is like I don't need a partner. That was it's that classic story when people like, once you stop looking for you're gonna find it, and blah, blah, blah and I was. I was like, oh, shut up, I'm fine, I love being single. And then it happened to me and the guy that I'm dating was the exact same boat. He was like I don't want to date anyone. He was out of the game, like hadn't dated anyone in like over a year, and then we just happened to meet in person on a boat in the middle of the Caribbean Ocean.

Speaker 1: 25:37

So you know, oh, wow, oh so when you were traveling.

Speaker 2: 25:41

Okay.

Speaker 1: 25:42

Yeah, I know some of that. Like she met her husband in Spain, I'm like, in Spain, how did you guys like manage to do the whole long distance thing? It's hard, you know what I mean, but I think, no, it's amazing that you know you were single for four years and you obviously did a lot of work on yourself and I think that's the thing that we all have to do, like it's, it's important. And I've done a lot of stuff on my own too. I, you know, I I talk about like I took I hated the class, I mean, I hated how long it was, but once I did it, it was.

Speaker 1: 26:13

I did a meditation workshop. For what was it? Nine weeks, those are hard nine weeks class, but I think it really did teach me a lot. Like I love talking and, uh, I did silent retreat. Then I was quiet for four hours. I couldn't believe it. Like we couldn't talk. Wow me, that was mind-boggling. I, I mind-blowing sorry, I always say that wrong mind-blowing in a sense, where I'm like I can't believe I did that because that, for me, is the hardest thing to and because there were people in the workshop like that, I know, and that I like we're walking on the school grounds, like we had to go outside and do a discovery walk and like you see the person and I couldn't say anything to them yeah so just like this is wow, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 26:59

It kind of forces you to reflect, think about things in a different way, and but hearing you talk about just finding the person, like when you least expect it, it just is so important too.

Speaker 1: 27:09

But I do want to say something, because I think it's. I was looking at some statistics on women in their 40s and so like they don't have anything recent, but in 2021, so nearly one quarter of couples in Canada lived in common law unions, with Quebec driving this trend, and so basically, we're saying the proportion of young adults so 20 to 34, living with at least one parent was 14 and a half percent. And then the one thing that's really interesting is like 10 of women in canada live on low income, so single mothers and women facing multiple barriers, so I guess it's just shining a light on, like you know, there's obviously a percentage of women that are single, but they're also like low income in various manners. You know what I mean. So, right, yeah, but I think, at this stage, though, even online dating, like you said, so you didn't have to meet your person online or anything like that, right?

Speaker 2: 28:10

so no, it's something that has always terrified me, and it's just because I I always, so wait a minute you've never, never tried you.

Speaker 1: 28:20

You've never tried, never I've never been on a date, oh wow.

Speaker 2: 28:25

And my reservations about it are that I always immediately think people are good people and like I'm, I, I would give people time that they probably wouldn't deserve. You know, even my, my best friend said to me, jen, you would get eaten alive on those hats. And she's like you have a pretty face, so people would message you and you would be nice to everybody. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I would, I would, and I know that about myself. So that kind of scared me because I was afraid of letting in the wrong person, you know, and I just they had. The biggest reason for me was that you can be whoever you want online. You can put whatever picture you want, you can say whatever you want about yourself, you can type whatever you think that person wants to hear. So I immediately don't trust you because I don't know who you actually are and, like I, I would go into the relationship feeling that way. So I'm like that's not a good way to start a relationship already, not trusting somebody before you've even met them. You know, like that's. I was like that is not a good way for me mentally to start a relationship. So I was just like you know what, I'm not doing it. And if I meet someone, great, if not also great, because I loved being single. So, yeah, I just I had a few friends trying to push me like, oh, you know, how are you ever gonna meet someone? Like maybe everyone's doing it, you know that that kind of stuff and I was just like, yeah, no, I can't, I don't want to do it, and I didn't. And yeah, I met someone in real life on a, on a car like, like surrounded by people of the same interest, because it was a music festival cruise and this guy was a sound guy for one of the bands and like I wouldn't, I probably would have never met him if I had been dating all these dating app people. You know, like, when he was on the same thing, he wasn't on the apps either. Like he has been on them in the past. When he said he went on a few dates last year and he's like they were just so terrible that he was like you know what I'm done? I'm just going to be single. He's just going to be single. He's the exact same age as me. He's a month younger than me.

Speaker 2: 30:17

So, yeah, like I don't know, like I think women in their 40s are very much realizing that, like, being single is peaceful. But, conversely, there's some men also starting to kind of feel that way too. I think probably fewer, but there's a lot of women. Right now there's this big movement of protecting your own peace, you know, and like a lot of women are thinking, you know, relationships aren't necessarily the way to do that, which I, I agree. I mean I'm grateful things are going well, but I'm still like I still have that in the back of my mind that I was very happy being single and I would happily be single again. No, you know, speaking ill of the person I'm dating at all, but but I think, even just being secure enough in myself now to know that I'm not going to be miserable and lonely and desperate if I'm alone, that I can still thrive and have a great time and go on trips and concerts and have friends and family, that you know other people that can fill my life with love and fun, you know.

Speaker 1: 31:16

Yeah, you know what? Yeah, speaking of the benefits, so I mean to go back to what you just said. So they say the benefits of singlehood increase life satisfaction and happiness, particularly around women in our age group 40 to 85. Lower loneliness levels compared to married women, especially in older age. Greater financial independence and security. Yeah, so I think it is interesting to discuss that because, you know, I think there's this stigma attached to it, especially because society expects us to you know at what, at this age, you're supposed to, you know, be dating someone. At this age, you're supposed to, you know, be dating someone. At this age you're supposed to get married and all these things. And I think maybe I'm a nonconformist. I've always been like, not conforming to society's beliefs. I think I've always been like that, like, just if you, if something is expected of me, I'm like, yeah, same.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Yeah, I'm very much the same, like in marriage.

Speaker 1: 32:13

For me that's like's like yeah, you don't see yourself getting married. You're just like I'm not against marriage per se.

Speaker 2: 32:19

I don't have a lot of money so, like seeing these you know hundred thousand dollar weddings that people put on to me, I'm like man, yeah, that money could go to so many better things.

Speaker 1: 32:29

Right, you're just throwing a big party for your friends, really but you know like, uh, like a vegan restaurant or something with like your friends or something, I don't know, like yeah yeah, like I again not against marriage.

Speaker 2: 32:41

I've had a lot of fun, uh, really expensive big weddings and I appreciate all you know my friends bringing me to that stuff. But you know you can. You can do weddings cheap or you can just go to the courthouse. You don't even have to have like a party. But for me that's not like, it's not an end game. You know, it's not something I ever ever thought like I need to do this, like it's like again, like you, like I'm like well, someone told me you got to get married and have kids and I'm like do I though? Like maybe, maybe I don't have to do that and you don't have to do that, and yeah, it's just not something but it takes.

Speaker 1: 33:14

You don't have to it. But I think it takes a very strong minded person to do it and be okay with it and communicate with your family, because I think I'm sure it's harder when your family's asking Like even my grandmother still asks me now and it's just like you know. That's the only. I think that's the only thing that makes it difficult with you. Are close with certain family members and they still ask about it. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 33:41

So especially the older generation like, yeah, I was like that was just what you did. You know, like you finished high school and you got married and then you popped out some kids and that was, that was life. Yeah, I think just now, like there have been times in my life where, like there was one time where, like I had a partner who wanted to marry me and I wanted to break up with him. So, you know, like I'm not, like it could have happened for me, because I'm not saying like again, I'm not against it, like I'm not saying I'll never get married, I don't know that, but it's not. It's just not a goal for me, it's not something I feel like I have to do to feel like a complete person. You know, and like, and again like being so content being single and then going into, like this relationship I'm in now like he's the same way, where he's like I'm not going to marriage and I'm like cool me either and he's like I don't want kids and we're cool me either. Like and that's another thing too with dating over the last four years or starting to talk to people.

Speaker 2: 34:34

I was very upfront with all that stuff. I was like I'm not interested in, like rushing into marriage or anything I said, and I don't want kids. Those are like the two things that I just as a courtesy to that other person, because if they're, if they want those things, then I'm not the person for them and that's. I just wanted to get that out of the way. But I'm telling you the amount of people that tried to convince me otherwise, to be like, oh, but like, you know, like you might regret not having kids, or like I had one. One guy have the audacity to say, oh, but like, if you had kids with me, it would be fine because I would be a great dad, so it wouldn't be much work. And I was like, I'm sorry, are you the one growing a human inside you? Like what do you mean? It wouldn't be much work for me.

Speaker 2: 35:17

Like that mentality from like men particular that I've talked to over the last four years or so, um, just them trying to change my mind about these things that I'm very firm and upfront with, because I'm like, if that, if you don't, that, not you, that's not for you, then I'm not for you and and that's fine and I, you know, let's move on before we get any feelings involved here. But there was numerous men who told me I would change my mind, or they would make me change my mind, or their kids would be the best. And like I, like I just there's. Oftentimes I didn't know how to respond to that, but usually I would just like look, I have made my decision. I'm telling you this because if that's not what you want, let's just move on. Like there's a million other women out there who would love to get married and love to start a family. That's not me, yeah, it's just.

Speaker 2: 36:06

There's just some people that just are not accepted. Like they can't understand that that's actually what I want and they can't respect that that's actually what I want and they can't respect that that's actually what I want. They always think, oh, you're just, you're doing that to be because you want to be different or you want to protect yourself or whatever, and it's just like no, this, the life that I imagine, doesn't involve either of those things, and it's very, very difficult for some people to accept because we've all been instilled with these you know timelines and what we're supposed to have done in life, and I think, like a lot of people around this age feel that right now, like they don't have that that marriage and kids thing and family, that they're failing, that they're falling behind, which is sad, really, because then it takes people away from just going out and enjoying life, you know, because they're so worried and depressed because they don't have a wife or a husband. And I wish people like I'm not saying be like me because, like, again, I've made my choices and this is just how I see my life playing out. Any other way anyone sees their life is fine, but, like, I wish people would stop being so hard on themselves and putting pressure to like fit that mold. Like you being so hard on themselves and putting pressure to like fit that mold.

Speaker 2: 37:16

Like you said that, what people you're supposed to be doing? Because I I have a lot of, you know, acquaintances that I've known that have married the wrong person just because they were like oh, this could be my last chance. It's like, no, you got until you're dead. Like, whenever that may be, there's no rush, there's no, everyone's timelines are different. Yeah, yeah and yeah, I think being like 40 is like, it's that midlife crisis age, you know, like, and I feel that too, like I'm like, that's the point right now where I'm like do I need a career change? Like do I want to move? Like what? Like you know, and I, I had these thoughts and I'm like where's this coming from? I'm like it's because I'm having my midlife crisis.

Speaker 1: 37:57

I have 25 more years to work. Like, what am I going to do with it? You know Exactly, but you know, I think I don't know if I had the midlife crisis, but I did have the health scare and that kind of makes you it's kind of like that wake up call. And you know, speaking of like timeline, I listened to Mel Robbins podcast and the one thing I appreciate her saying is, like you know those timelines that society expects you. Like you know, having a house by the time you're 35, 40.

Speaker 1: 38:25

Like I mean, she's like the average person who can own a home is like so much later on in life, because that was different at a different time, and now houses having a house now is so much harder because in life, because that was different at a different time, and now houses having a house now is so much harder because of the market. And so we have to be like looking at everything for what it is in terms of the time right now and like being, like you said, being okay with the situation that you're in now and it's it's it's your time. Like I mean, you know, even me, like you, you're talking about your career, it's, it's your time. Like I mean, you know even me. Like you, you're talking about your career. Like even me too, I was like I didn't get clarity on where, on my career choice, until I think I was 39, and then it kind of everything kind of like made sense because, when other people have, like they see what you're good at and you don't see what they're talking about.

Speaker 1: 39:15

I've had, I've had, I've had. I remember my high school teacher and I told a story to another friend. But like everyone has a different uh journey to get to and like we're all, we're all going on a different path. Like you know, some people figure it out younger. Like some people figure it out like 30, 40, like there's no set time and like it's, it's, it's hard. You know, I guess, when you have these expectations but I think it it just goes back to the fact that, like you are where you're supposed to be and you're gonna figure it out.

Speaker 1: 39:48

Like just like you're gonna figure it out and it took you four years of being on your own and I think it's good though, like I mean, because, like there's a reason why you had to be single for that amount of time to discover who you are and work on yourself, and because you want the person, like the person that you're with, you want them to be in that stage of life too. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 40:10

Like yeah when you want to be able to present your best self too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Speaker 1: 40:16

But I think this is like one of those conversations where we definitely have to talk more, but it's it's amazing how far you've come since you know we met like how many years ago now, like 15 years ago 15 years.

Speaker 2: 40:30

Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:32

Or was it 2009?

Speaker 2: 40:34

I don't even know 2010. I years yeah, right, yeah or was it 2009, I don't even know 2010 I think, yeah, I remember when I was like I'm like, oh my gosh, I got into humber. I was so excited too. Yeah, I left the job. I go back to college.

Speaker 1: 40:44

When I was 26, I was like this is great you know, I was kind of like thinking well for me when I was like, oh, I'm old, like is it gonna? Am I going to feel weird? Is there going to be other people in my age group?

Speaker 2: 40:57

And then we found a cluster of us that were like A little group of the older people. Yeah, but we still made friends with all the 18-year-olds. Yeah, we did right. We still talked to a couple of them.

Speaker 1: 41:09

Yeah, you still talk to Sabrina. Do you still talk to her?

Speaker 2: 41:13

Sabrina, the odd time. Yeah, oh, you do. Okay, that's like online, like whatever. Yeah, I still talk to like Karan, like a few other people that we met there. Yeah, I was.

Speaker 2: 41:22

That was a an interesting time and that was another thing too. You know, like most people knew what they wanted to do right out of high school. I didn't, so I just went to work. And it wasn't until I was 26 and I had been in a career in finance for five years at that point that I was like, well, this is not for me, this is not what I want to be doing, I'm miserable.

Speaker 2: 41:42

And then, like just that day when that realization was like I could just do something else, I applied for school. That day, within a week, I had been to the school for an interview, got accepted and then quit my job and I was just like I'm kind of. At that point now I was like, you know, I would love to go back to school. I can't financially do that to myself again, because I just paid off my school loans, I think last year or the year before. So good for you, jen, but I don't want to go through that again and I'm like, because I love learning, I would love to go back to school and like try something else, and I'm very interested in a number of things.

Speaker 1: 42:20

But I'm just like financially. I don't, I don't know, yeah, well, you know, I feel like with online now, like if you do some online courses and stuff, yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:29

The alternative jobs and work.

Speaker 1: 42:31

Yeah, exactly Right. Yeah, it's so cool, though I mean for sure, it's just whatever you decide to do, that's going to work for you in the end, right? But yeah, it's been a great conversation and I hope we do it again. I'm Carlene and this is Diva Tonight with Jen Kay. You can follow her online at Instagram, but I put your link here for Twitter, which is now XJPotion, and then you can listen to her, right? Sometimes you're like you fill in. Is that what you do? I do, yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:05

I have a weekly show on 92.9 the Grand and 88.5 the Lake on Sunday nights 9 to midnight. Oh nice, 8 to midnight. Sorry, I got an extra hour now 8 to midnight. Sorry, I got an extra hour now 8 to midnight. And then, yeah, I fill in swing whenever I'm needed that's cool.

Speaker 1: 43:18

For sure, it's been great. This has been like so unexpected. I gotta say I didn't even think this conversation would turn this way. But yeah, it's been awesome.

Speaker 2: 43:28

But yeah, thank you so much oh, thank you and yeah, gotta have that conversation about ai sometime for sure, we definitely do definitely diva tonight with carlene.

Speaker 3: 43:39

We'll be back. Send us a message on instagram at diva underscore tonight.